Charley Boorman on Long Way Down 2007 Transcript

On a very cold sunny morning on thursday 18th October 2007, I went to the Long Way Down HQ to interview Charley Boorman re his and Ewan McGregor's latest trip - Long Way Down. I also got to see the motor bikes still covered in African mud!

Charley was very congenial though tired, and it was very obvious that he was very much still coming down from the adventure; but none the less he talked very enthusiastically about the trip and the charity projects (CHAS, UNICEF, Riders for Health) they were supporting.

I have only lightly edited the transcript. Enjoy!

VW: Charlie Boorman, Welcome back to the Bookfiend's Kingdom. It's been a whole year and you've done a whole load. This time we are going to talk about the Long Way Down.

CB: Yea, The Long Way Down, it took us a long time to come up with that name, and we deliberated long and hard I know! I suppose it all started as we were coming to the end of our last trip, and I think, when you are coming to the end of a trip, you have very mixed emotions about your feelings for that trip, and that a part of you doesn't want to finish! And you're looking for an excuse to turn around and maybe go back or whatever, and then the greater part of you starts to think about the other part of it; to see the children and the wife again and of passing the finish. So inevitably you start to talk about trips, and psychologically you know that you eventually at some stage we will do another one. I think it was no different to the Long Way Down as it was to do the Long Way Round, and we spoke about Africa and our work with UNICEF. Which were very humbling and very lucky that we could see what was going on and show people certain things. What we were trying to do to help, Ewan and I, as only actors we can only show what we can do to help; we can show what goes on out there and then hopefully we can make a difference.

VW: When we last spoke you spoke about Riders for Health.

CB: Yes, I've been interested in Riders for Health for awhile. It certainly wasn't during Long Way Round, but I was looking to find another charity. I'm quite big into bikes and chose the whole of Moto GB World and motor bike racing. I love all that and since Long Way Round I've met a lot of racers and had a lot of fun. I started to see that all those people had been involved with Moto GB quite a lot and started to speak to Riders for Health, and eventually chose it as one of our charities. We have three charities UNICEF as the main one, Riders for Health and CHAS which is Ewan's charity - a home for incurable children in Scotland.

VW: A bit like Rainbow House down here!

CB: Yes, something like that, and we went to visit Riders for Health in Kenya. What they basically do is teach people how to ride motor bikes and teach people how to maintain the bikes; so that these bikes have a much longer longevity. A lot of these NGOs are charities and they buy vehicles, but the maintenance of the vehicles is very low on the list so consequently the car or the jeep or what ever doesn't last very long! Where as, with the right guidance, and the right professionalism, they can teach these people; to maintain their bikes, so that the bikes can go on for five maybe ten years.

VW: Which is very good?

CB: That is a long time, when normally they would only last a year; but this is a very efficient and very cheap way of getting people around the area. We went to this hospital near the Tanzania border and they have a fleet of motor bikes there for the doctors and nurses and community health workers, who have been trained to use them and they go out to the far reaching places within a 70 mile radius. They don't just go out and give anti-retroviral drugs to people but they take mosquito nets, they take blood samples, they deliver powdered milk to mothers with a baby, because a child in the womb does not have HIV, or rather they are HIV negative but can contract it in the coming out (birth) or from suckling from its mother. Breast feeding is not guaranteed that the baby will contract Aids.

 

VW: But we should say that aids is very prevalent in all the African countries.

CB: Yes, every country in Africa has Aids, but the biggest killer in Africa is Malaria, and the second biggest killer is Dysentery and then it is HIV and related diseases. So these guys are out there and are delivering all sorts of sanitation, with chemical toilets, teaching people to be more careful. Delivering mosquito nets to the very elderly and very young and the pregnant mothers who are the most vulnerable to malaria. Most of these African countries are offered anti-retroviral drugs free, but most people cannot afford the bus fare to get to the place where the drugs are. So this is what they (Riders for Health) do. It's fantastic and it is all about going that extra mile, and most NGOs and charities don't have the answer for the last mile, and these guys do, so that's what they do.

VW: I suppose we should go back to the beginning shouldn't we and start of in the North of Scotland.

CB: Yes, we decided to do another one and we wanted to go to South Africa and Cape Town and finish off there. We thought or rather Ewan was doing an interview with some motor bike magazine and had, in the conversation mentioned that we might go from John O'Groats, to Cape Town and they printed it! So then it was kind of set in stone, and we thought well we would really like to go through Britain and down through Europe, and then into Africa. So that's what we did!

So we went up to John a Groats and spent the night in the Queen Mother's house and then we went all the way down through Scotland. We stayed at Ewan's mum's house and went and visited Ewan's charity (CHAS). This amazing place where they have built this beautiful house for kids, with amazing people (staff), who are there to create memories for these families and parents, because some of these children are only five or six days old. They have these wonderful heated rooms and pools with these electric chairs to get the children in and out and then there is this place where the family can get counselling. We then went on into England passed Hadrians Wall.

VW: What was the name of the fort, I call it Vindaloo Fort (actually it's called Vindolanda Housestead Roman Fort) but I know its not that, it shows you what the Roman's did with the latrines, and how clever they are with things.

CB: Absolutely we saw a lot of that sort of thing in Libya where they have Leptis Magna, which is probable one of the greatest remaining ruins in the world! Incredible! They have these latrines with running water underneath the toilets and you sit on this marble slab with toilet seats, and just in front of your feet there is another of fresh running water-which you can scoop up water to wash yourself and then off you go! There were incredibly well designed steam rooms and saunas and under floor heating. We all think we are very clever with under floor heating now, but it always reminds me of that film The Life of Brian!

VW: Oh yes.

CB: When there is that classic scene when they're talking about what have the Romans done for us? Lights, Sanitation, irrigation, No! But apart from that - what have the Romans done for us? Education, school teaching ? No! But apart from all that - what have the Romans done for us? And it goes on and on.

But then we stayed the last night before we got to London on the grass at the side of the last corner of Silverstone. It is where it all happens; that is where you can win or loose. Everything happens on that last corner! I think we were the first people ever to camp on that corner!!

VW: Crazy but!

CB: Yes. It seemed like a bizarre thing to do at the time! Then we got back to London and sorted the whole thing out (bikes, clothes, tool kits) and then we headed on down to Africa.

VW: But there was a lot of emotion involved in this trip and a lot of angsty stuff, a lot of tension and pressure, and yet you wanted this to be a much more relaxed trip. And yet some how the first half; it didn't happen! You were at each others throats, misunderstandings and all sorts of things were going on!

CB: I think when you do a second trip, I was under the impression that you get back into it. You find you're travelling; because with the first one, it took a good period of time to get into it. To leave the rest of them (friends and family) all behind, and worry about your diet, your fears, your worries, and on this trip, because we had done it before I just thought we would slip into the whole travel mode again. In fact you don't. It took at least two and a bit weeks to really let everything go behind. This was the second show and people knew the first was successful, so people had very high expectations of us. I, okay put myself under a lot of pressure, I thought people expect a lot more from us on the next one and all sorts of stuff. Then I think we grossly underestimated the sheer distance and size of North Africa. We put ourselves under pressure, because knowing that there was a boat we needed to catch, that only went once a week. If we had missed that we would throw everything else out at the Cape. We would put all the UNICEF stuff into pieces, so we put ourselves under pressure. When you're riding, riding and riding all day you exhaust yourself. And then everything becomes a problem because you're tired and you're not eating properly and regularly missing lunch.

VW: Sandstorms?

CB: Sandstorms were fun!

VW: Fun! You were complaining about the nether regions!

CB: It was fun! It was tough at the time and yet there was an excitement about it. But the complaining was because we were doing this ridiculous amount of mileage. In a sandstorm and why would you do that? Because we had put ourselves under a lot of pressure.! That was a mistake and that just ricocheted through us all, being in bad moods, being under pressure, and so much of the time when you are out of sorts; and so much of that was because we hadn't eaten properly. You suddenly realise that it is three o'clock in the afternoon and hang on, I haven't eaten since breakfast.

Then the minute you have something, a bite to eat, your mood changes and you're determined to get out off on the road again; even though the road was so bad, you just start all over again. Food has a huge part to play in your emotions and Africa is a huge place. If you have a little bit of money you can eat incredible well for Africa. All the roadside food and as long as you go to somewhere which is busy you could pretty much eat anything you wanted.

As much as people say that it's a dangerous dodgy country, people have the impression that Africa is a country not a continent. A continent with many different countries and incredible different people. In North Africa to East Africa to South Africa and you know the differences are enormous. The Cultures, the food, the religions the people everything is totally different.

This whole Gadaffe thing of a united Africa is never going to happen ever! Even the guy from Uganda - The president of Uganda. We were just leaving Uganda, we were reading one of the newspapers there and he had come back from this meeting of African Nations and he just said forget it. Just no way!

VW: Tribal Mentality.

CB: I'ts not so much tribal mentality as it's a bit like saying Italy France and Britain are going to all be one now! And, there's no difference there as there is to any other country in Africa. The Cultures the society the beliefs, the food, everything we do is different. Everything that goes on from North Africa, Libya, Uganda to Manabí and all over; those three are totally different in every way you can possible think, and that is no different to Italy, France and England, is no different at all!

VW: What is so extraordinary is that when you are going through the borders!

CB: Eight days we spent on Borders!

VW: The Carnet isn't what we'd expect!

CB: The Borders were quite easy, going through the borders - Sorry your question? (Charley is far away still living the trip!)

VW: You would be coming through one country where everything was in turmoil and dusty and extremely poor, and ancient, and then you would go through the border and everything seemed to be clear, as if by magic!

CB: Well things do change at borders dramatically. Every border you go through changes dramatically andI suppose that is just the way that country is. It uses its land for farming, I mean in Ethiopia, every inch is used for farming and if you pop over to the Kenyan border; Northern Kenya is very empty and terrible roads! Society has changed the look of the landscapes, but it does, two feet and everything changes, but people say to you go to Africa.

People's impression of Africa is quite negative, and as much as all these things (Live Aid etc) that happened in the 80s and 90s has done a lot of good, it has left an impression of what we see in Africa. We see Africa as pot bellied children, starving children, dying children - people dying of aids, suffering, people living in mud huts and misery, and that's kind of our impression. But really we arrive, drive or ride and that is not the impression you get at all.

Of course every country has it s problems, it has its poverty and its input. But all those problems you can find here you know. African people just live on handouts and such, we can point at him. Look at the many people here that are on benefits and live on handouts! That shouldn't be. So therefore we can relate. I'ts easy to dismiss a society that you have never been to or never seen. It's like we say "Americans don't like them!" Well why? Because? Have you been there? No - It's exactly the same thing, but why dismiss a whole country.

VW: Ignorance.

CB: But it's ridiculous, it's the same thing in Africa and everywhere we went. We can't see that Libya dodgy place, that's dangerous! And not once did we come across anybody, ok on the last trip we came across a few dodgy people, but they scared shit out of us. But in Africa you never came across people like that, but I think the less people had, the more people come across and the more people are prepared to give.

VW: Absolutely.

CB: And that's something that you notice. That's maybe because you are on a motor bike they feel a bit more sorry for you, or it's a turn on or maybe its because you are much more in their environment. So when you're riding on a motor bike you get wet, so if you pass through a field of flowers, you smell the flowers immediately. If you are in a car you smell them after you have gone passed; a bonfire if you go though a bonfire in a car, you only smell it after you have gone past, so everything is late, where as on a motor bike everything is instant.

When you arrive in a village or something like that to ask somebody directions, or where there is something to eat or something like that, you are in their environment immediately - straight away - when you turn up in a jeep you have to open the door and to come out of your environment into theirs. Some people were just incredible all just coming up and saying- where have you come from? Where are you going? And why would you want to do that? Most of them say...

VW: Because you're Bonkers!

CB: Yes well!

VW: But for me I went to Kenya in 1993, the overwhelming thing apart from poverty was the music.

CB: Yeah good music.

VW: They sing, they sing when they're sad, they sing when they're happy they sing when there celebrating, and they do the dances to go with it, and that was my overwhelming experience over and above the poverty and the politics.

CB: But the poverty as well. O.K. if you go to Nairobi to look at the slums and I took my children to see them on the way back after we went to Kenya for two and half weeks to spend a holiday with friends. We were lucky enough that UNICEF had organised a trip into the slums with my children so they could have a look and see what I do with UNICEF because it is difficult to explain to people what it is like. So my kids went in there and they saw terrible Bengali, the terrible and biggest slums in the world. Then there were these tiny rooms with almost no space, with eight or ten people living in it and no bigger than that table (looking at the map table in the planning room).

VW: Which is how big?

CB: I don't know, 18ft by 10ft maybe, who knows a bit bigger and they rent it. Most people living in the slums in Nairobi rent; pay somebody rent, and so there are people who are getting rich on people living in a shit hole. Then they have to pay to go to the bathroom and they have to pay for water. People can't afford to go to the bathroom; people live on top of people so much that they go quite far away and do number ones or number twos in the street in a plastic bag and throw it away somewhere; and that causes agro so there are people making money out of people's misery. It's expensive, I think 950 Kenyan dollars a month to live there plus.

VW: How much is that in?

CB: I don't know how much that is it's not very much I think it is about eight quid. (950 Kenyan Schillings is £6.99 on financial exchange 2/10/2007).

VW: Wow!

CB: And I think you know she will be the mother as the head of the household; she will have maybe six or seven children. Her husband will have died of aids or HIV related infections and maybe her brother and sister have died or sister in law and she is looking after their children. She may get casual work washing clothes, and maybe she will get a couple of hundred schillings a day or maybe she'll make once or twice a week she will get that. So it's near on impossible to live, and somebody is making money out of them! You have some guy that's buying the houses up and its crazy, so there is a lot of poverty and problems in Africa.

VW: But still you went of the motor bikes and had lots of fun with all the thrills and spills!

CB: We were going through India, no Ethiopia and you have some of the best riding in the world up in the mountainous regions in Ethiopia - you never get much below 2000 metres and to put that in perspective if you go skiing in Courchevel (in France) the highest ski slope in Courchevel is 2250meters and you are averaging about 2000 meters wherever you are in Ethiopia.

The capital of Ethiopia is 2400 meters, so going up to the top of Ethiopia with all pretty bad messed up roads, and these switch back roads that are clinging to the sides of these incredibly steep mountains! You have to go all the way up there and then all the way down and all the way back up and all the way down, it was mad; and then you've got these huge trucks travelling on these roads as well. Then every kind of conceivable animal as well you could possibly think of. There aren't many cars so every body walks everywhere, you've got donkeys and camels and horses and goats, sheep and dogs you name it and, cows! Tons and tons and tons of cows all on the road at the same time. Then every time you go through a village it's just full of people! So riding is quite a challenge ‘cos you never quite get bored. On the last trip there were stretches of road with just nobody you'd see nothing. In Ethiopia you stop because there was no one around and then in a couple of minutes there would be 10 kids!

VW: Just come out of nowhere?

CB: Yes, surround you and - give me money - give me pen? They all love school there desperate to go to school!

VW: They are yes.

CB: So that's what they ask for - pens!

VW: I remember that when I was in Kenya.

CB: Pens and notebooks and all that kind of stuff and then when you give one kid one, then you're buggered. It then becomes just a nightmare. At the beginning of the trip you are much more sympathetic and as you start to get used to it you can't keep handing stuff out because physically you would have nothing left on you, so basically you become a bit harder.

The first time you go through Africa it's a visual feast for your mind and the incredible colours, the way people act the way people do business. It's just endless, it's different but after awhile you become use to it. And you stop at people's houses and you're asked to come into their house. They're so proud of this little mud hut, and incredibly tidy inside, they have all the basic stuff and you'd sit down!

In Ethiopia we went to this one place and they made this incredible amazing tea. This ginger tea where they crush fresh ginger on their big rock and she came in and put it into this kettle with the leaves and the ginger and water. This kettle must have made thousands and thousands and thousands of cups of tea, it was encrusted with soot!

VW: Did the ginger blow your mouth of?

CB: No it was perfect, perfect bit of ginger, perfect amount of tea, sugar and it was the most perfect cup of tea. He (head of house/family) was showing us to his children and what he had in his house. To us it was - oh my god its nothing; but to him he was so proud of what he had, and so you have to remember that everything is relative. Just because someone is living in a mud hut doesn't mean to say that they don't have a good quality of life. But of course it is tough for them and of course they could do with more money, they could do with their kids going to secondary school. There is no secondary school! So they said if you wanted secondary school for children in Ethiopia you would have to employ something like 85,000 teachers and then you would have to accommodate the school f........!(Charley is upset by this thought).F......!. So you can understand why there isn't a secondary school. But these kids are desperate. You go out in the morning, and these kids! You ride early in the morning, and sometime you see this guy who comes out of his house, and he's got a crisp white shirt on and his kid has got proper nice uniform and is trotting off down the road. So really people are no different to us people, they want all the same things as we want.

VW: Absolutely, and on the other side of the people were the animals. When you met Lola (baby rhino) and also you had the wonderful experience of seeing the Gorillas in Rwanda.

CB: Yes the Gorillas. There is one thing you cannot get away from, is animals in Africa and that is one of the things we were so excited about, to see real animals not just in the zoo. And in Sudan and places you don't see so many gorillas, but that was beautiful because you were going around the Nile road. They were pretty deserted really, so you are sleeping just on a role net and a little silk sheet that you used in sleeping bags, and in hotels if you are not sure if the beds clean or not. Because if you wear silk the bed bugs can't bite!

VW: Because of the very fine weave?

CB: Yes they can't get through silk, so you can buy these at any camping shop, it's definitely a good thing to take with you. And for sleeping out under the stars, crazy! Then you're camping in Tanzania in the middle of nowhere. I remember one time I woke up at two in the morning and couldn't get to sleep because of the noise of Hippos, the buffalo's and the elephants all making unbelievable noises all night and bloody hell - Shut up! You're putting ear plugs into your ears so you sleep it's so noisy! And when you're riding in the day you've got ostriches, zebra's, giraffes, warthogs and buffalos you name it its there. They're all prime fillet of beef! It's not like when you go to the zoo, you get some mangy old poor lion which has got trapped in some weird syndrome or what ever you like to call it.

VW: These are all very healthy animals.

CB: All in their prime cause anything with a bit of a limp gets eaten, anything that's a little bit old gets eaten, anything that's a little bit young has a huge possibility of being eaten and then you've got all the Élan and the Tutu and they're just lunch menu poor things. And that's why they are always so twitchy because they're looking around and thinking at any moment were going to get eaten now! There's along list of animals that are going to kill me! But Buffalos don't care about anyone because they are so enormous and they'll kill everything!

VW: You were surprised how big the zebra were as well?

CB: I was surprised how big everything was! It's just the crème de la crème of everything of each, and then you are just terrified that you are going to hit one because!

VW: You saw lots of dead camels by the roadside.

CB: Yes we did, lots had been killed and lots and lots of dogs. Some that had just been glanced by a truck or some that had brains everywhere. It was really awful.

VW: That's not nice!

CB: Brains everywhere, some of it is just horrible!

VW: On your video blog, you showed Lola a baby rhinoceros

CB: The rhinoceros was beautiful, that was in one of the national parks, I can't remember which one now. They do a great programme of re-introducing animals and that guy with Lola will be with her for five years, and then she will just walk off. Rhinos don't have an issue with emotional attachment! Elephants have tremendous attachments, rhinoceros can not give a shit. You look after them, give your life for five years and then they'll just walk away and have absolutely no interest. That's just the way they are. We then went up to Rwanda which was a place both Ewan and I wanted to go to. Rwanda is terribly well known for all the wrong reasons and the terrible things that have happened there. We went to see the mountain gorillas there; that was pretty impressive walking up quite high. Mountain gorillas live quite high in the mountains!

VW: No snakes then!

CB: And no mosquitoes! We sat with these gorillas for an hour and we could literally touch them!

VW: It must have been amazing!

CB: It was amazing just to see them. Beautiful!

VW: Just to see them in the wild.

CB: And then we went and saw the president of Rwanda. We bumped into him at a wedding of the lady who had organised the gorillas, she said, come along after the wedding, and it turned out to be this massive high society wedding and we were just dressed in jeans and open necked shirts! Grossly underdressed! We ended up meeting the president and the next day he invited us to go and see him in the countryside home there. So we panicked, woke up this lady who had this suit shop at 10.00 o'clock at night and bought suits! And then went off and met the President the next day. He must have realised that we were travellers, so we went to the Presidents house and all standing there in suits, and he turned up in a shirt and jeans! He obviously thought, I better dress down because they're dressed down and we thought we better dress up! And there was that moment when we all looked at each other and thought erm, okay! We all looked like those guys, those sailors who have been taken by the Iranians and then they were all released with the same suit on! We felt just like those(the sailors). But he was a very interesting man. For the last thirteen years he has had to take on what has been happening and his rule. But I don't know; Ewan and I are not political in any sense. You don't say no to a president! We were aware he had a great passion for what he was doing and was making amazing differences after all the terrible, terrible things. But the sense you get when you go through Rwanda is that it's a fun place and if you ever get to the capital of Rwanda, there is a great night club called The New Cadillac, which we went to until five in the morning! Then went the same morning to see the President of Rwanda feeling a little bit well!!

VW: From one extreme to the other!

CB: Yes basically.

VW: What was it like getting at last into South Africa because that is a totally different culture?

CB: I suppose, yeah. I think it is interesting that as you go down through Africa, I think East Africa and the middle part of Africa is fabulous. Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda, Tanzania, Malawi, Zambia. In Botswana and Namibia things start spreading out a bit more, certainly in Namibia and Cape Town it becomes a bit white again. Having gone to Africa you kind of wanted that back, as in East Africa and Central Africa I preferred it up there. Malawi was incredible like the Caribbean of Africa. It was just an amazing place. A friend of mine who lives there and has for a long time said he would love to talk to me after you have been to Africa, how it has affected you because it gets under your skin .Yes Africa does really get under your skin, I think both Ewan and I can vouch for Ewan that absolutely, we both fell in love with Africa.

VW: Your eyes have just glazed as you have gone back there.(Charley is remembering the trip)

CB: We really did love it.

VW: We have talked an awful lot about the emotional side and the people side but very little about the motor bikes!

CB: Well motor bikes are a part of it! The bikes were fantastic, they didn't really let us down. We had a couple of suspension problems, that's us repairing Ewan's bike in the picture there (pointing to the picture on the wall, but it is in the book) but that's the way he rides the bike. Hard but that's Ewan! Rear suspension stuff is not much of a deal!

VW: Well from 50mins to 10mins to change one is not bad.

CB: Well yes they performed beautifully and fantastically, they are your babies! So you do fall in love with them! It is everything, it has everything on it that you need to take with you and I suppose you keep willing her to carry on, and look after her and making sure she is okay.

VW: Tender loving Care, I remember it well(I used to help my husband repair his bike!)

CB: I think the boys, Russ and Dave (who we originally got together) - we found Russ and he introduced us to Dave, to the American side. His helping with the TV and other stuff in America, they came with us on the last trip in the support vehicles.

VW: Are you talking about the 'Long Way Round'?

CB: Yes the 'Long Way Round', they came with us on the support vehicles and because of filming they need extra supplies, so they came with us again this time. I think the cars often had it harder. But I think, for us we had it more difficult because we had the continuous driving, no one else could do it for us, we had to ride! We had to keep going, they could change over. But you could talk to each other and share the experience, but in the car you can swap drivers. But in the cars, and sometimes the bad roads, the bumps, we can go around; in the jeeps they can't. We went on some bad roads even on the last trip

VW: So do you think that the Race to Dakar help you?

CB: Oh definitely, absolutely for me all the riding was easy, I think it was a little bit difficult for Ewan because he fell off a fair bit. Baring in mind that he hadn't really ridden off road since the last trip, and that was almost three years. Two and half years difference, so it took him a bit longer to get back into it. By the time he got into it he was brilliant , he was fantastic he just zipped along a real natural at riding bikes.

VW: In this conversation you let slip India.

CB: No, Yes Well that was, but I don't know, we started talking about other trips as we did in the 'Long Way Round'.

VW: Something easier next time

CB: We spoke a lot about the Long Way Up, that would be South America, North America and most recently I've been thinking more about the Long Way Down Under that would be to go from London to Sydney and go through all the ‘Stans!. India, Thailand, Papa New Guinea and all that kind of thing I've never really gone through. Then I would much rather go to Pakistan, and India, Thailand, Papa New Guinea - than China.

VW: That was really interesting,

CB: Which would you rather do? Yeah

VW: Well yes

CB: I'm fascinated by it all, people and their religions and how they live I think that would be a real challenge and so I don't know, I think that I'd be sorry, we have spoken about things and I think its been a real emotional roller coaster.

VW: Much more emotional than the Long Way Round.

CB: I think it is the start of was my wife's lung collapse just before we went off and she had pneumonia! She just got unlucky when she had a biopsy, that there is always a risk or a small chance of having. It is not such a big deal!

VW: No! but it is to the person!

CB: And then there's the whole incident of the airport which you'll have to read in the book about that, I rather not talk about that!

VW: Yeah Yeah!

CB: You read the book on that one!

VW: Yes it was very interesting that bit!

CB: Then the mistake of our mileage in Africa, but those are the ups and downs of trips and if it was always plain sailing it would be boring.

VW: It would.

CB: I don't think anyone's in it for!

VW: But you like it for the adventure?!

CB: I think everybody likes a bit of adventure and everybody has their own idea of adventure. So you know everyone has their own idea of a degree of adventure. Just because somebody decides to hop in a car or a bike and drive round Northern France and come back again and that can be enough for them. For them it's brilliant

VW: It's pushing the boundaries.

CB: And it's what ever boundary you want to do and if you do it a weekend journey or a year's journey or what ever it is

VW: One couple did eight years!

CB: It's all a journey it doesn't matter.

VW: I think for you!

CB: It's just a trip!

VW: It's all about meeting the people all over!

CB: Yeah it's about the bikes really but!

VW: No. that's secondary!

CB: No. it's about the bikes always first and second and then meeting people along the way. Everything stems from the bikes, it's all about wanting to do a bike trip. The back bone of the journey is the bikes and riding the bikes every day and that is huge part of the journey. And then there is the people you meet along the way and the people you stumble into.

VW: Your writer Geoff is really brilliant about the way he has put it down.

CB: Well we've all worked incredible hard in trying to figure out how to structure it and the amount of emotion we wanted in it, and with real collaboration. Geoff is real talented. Ewan and I had worked terrible hard on it as well, the diligence of having to do the diaries every day and there was a lot of work by everybody.

VW: But from laughter to tears and back again!

CB: But well hopefully the idea was to get you when you read the book that you were sitting on the bike!

VW: Definitely!

CB: And that was what we hoped, we tried to be as honest and as truthful as we could be.

VW: Definitely - Charlie, well thank you for your time it was greatly appreciated.

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